Captain's Quarters, Teppoyuri, 115.3.27 - Checking In

Morwen spoke quietly as the holocomm connected. “Hi, Mom.”

Mirelle’s face appeared on the projector in front of her, smiling. “Hello, dear. How are you holding up?"

“I'm fine, I think. Very tired.” 

“You look it,” her mother responded, eyes flicking from one part of her daughter's face to another. “How are things up there?” 

“Tense. Everyone's wishing they would lift the no-fly restrictions so we could get down there already.” 

“Your project is going well, then?” 

Morwen took a small breath, then nodded. “Yeah, I guess you could say that. We've almost got two Charons' worth of supplies so far. And that convoy from Ishukone arrived in one piece.” 

“That's quite a lot. You must be pleased.” 

Morwen nodded again, a little more energetically. “Yeah. The leader of the convoy even said he would accept the supplies when it's time to take things to the surface. I'm surprised by how eager people were to donate, and how quickly and how much. It's nice to see other capsuleers displaying more than just a shred of humanity once in a while.” 

“... But?” Mirelle looked at her expectantly. 

“... But I'm worried it won't be enough.” Morwen sighed heavily. “Mom, the place is in such a mess I can't even begin to describe it. How could even ten or a hundred times the amount we have now be enough for these people?” 

“The people who live there are strong, dear. Every one of them. They will work hard, they will rebuild and they will survive. You are helping them get back onto their feet that much faster, and you should be proud of yourself for doing that, and of everyone else who is chipping in to help you. You've even got the direct attention of people in Ishukone, sweetie, I know how happy that must make you after all these years.” 

“I guess so.” Morwen sighed again, brushing a strand of hair out of her face. “I'm, um... sorry about not spending your birthday with you. Things have been so busy I forgot to get you something.” 

Mirelle smiled and waved dismissively. “Don't apologize for that. You made the right choice, sweetie. You know your father would be so proud of you right now.” 

Morwen's expression darkened. “I think he'd have been happier if I'd been able to put a few hundred salvos of antimatter charges into the Shiigeru like I'd planned on doing, Mom.” 

“No, Morwen, he wouldn't.” Mirelle picked up a steaming mug and took a sip from it, then continued. “You did exactly what we taught you to do. Given the choice between causing harm and helping protect people from harm, you chose to help people who really, truly needed you.” 

“That wasn't my choice, Mom. I wanted to get out there and fight, I really did. The station docking controllers wouldn't queue me for departure.” 

Mirelle chided her gently. “But instead of trying over and over, you gave up and did something else to help.” 

“That's not the point, Mom!” 

“Then what is?” 

“I wanted to go out there and fight. I wanted to shoot that thing out of the sky. I would have if they had just put me in the damn undocking queue! I didn't want to be stuck on the station sitting on my ass!” 

“So?” Mirelle briefly eyed her daughter’s fists, which had become clenched during her frustrated outburst. “Dear, you didn't fight with them when they told you you couldn't. You found another way to help. And then I hear you did even more later that night, working to get people off the surface, away from the fighting.” 

“... Yes, I did. Most of them are still here on the station. Naoko's crew is taking care of them. I've ... gone and hung around, to help out. Between dealing with donations.” 

“How are they doing?” 

“Most are out of critical condition at this point. Everyone wants to go back home. It feels horrible, not being able to tell them when they’ll be able to do that.” 

Morwen went silent, tears starting to well in her eyes. Mirelle frowned slightly. 

“Are you sure you’re okay, dear?” 

“No, Mom. No, I'm not. I can't stop worrying about whether I'm doing enough to help these people, if there isn't more I can do. I hate this. I hate the fighting, I want it to stop. It's why I changed my mind about joining the FDU after I graduated from the training program. I just saw senseless death and pain and suffering and didn't want to be part of it.” 

Mirelle remained quiet, listening to her daughter vent. 

“But as much as I hated it then, I still wasn't any better myself. And the sick part is I’m still proud of the places I went and who I was able to fly with. Even the two years as a pirate.” 

“Well, you know full well your father and I didn't care. You're our daughter and we love you unconditionally. I'm sure your lovely partner feels the same way, and there are several other wonderful people I've met here who I know love you very dearly as well.” 

Morwen took a deep breath, then exhaled quietly, wiping her eyes. “Sorry, Mom. Thanks. I just... I think I need to go lie down for a bit.” 

“Go right ahead. I won't keep you.” Mirelle paused, then as Morwen reached over to turn off the camera drone, she spoke up again. “And Morwen, dear...” 

“Yeah?” 

“You did give me a birthday present, sweetie, one of the best I could have asked for. I am so happy for you both, you know that, right?” 

Morwen sat there for a moment, then nodded slowly. “Yeah.” 

“Knowing you are happy, doing things that make you happy, with someone who makes you happy, that is all the present I need.” 

Morwen cracked a small smile, wiping tears from her cheeks. “Thanks, Mom. I just... I wish Dad had been there.” 

Mirelle smiled gently. “I know you do, dear. Wherever he is, he feels just the same as I do.” 

Morwen nodded. 

“Some grandkids wouldn't hurt, mind,” Mirelle added with a playful wink. “When you get around to it, of course.” 

Morwen laughed a little, then with a small sniffle reached over to turn off the camera. 

“Good night, Mom.”

“Good night, dear. Rest well.”

Moms, Farms and ISK Faucets

So, Evelgrivion tweeted something earlier that caught my attention.

Is Incursion farming a problem? #tweetfleet #eveonline
— Evelgrivion (@Evelgrivion) February 19, 2013

As someone who actually enjoys the Incursion content (my objections to the way the storyline was herpderped into existence aside), this is an issue I've spent a bunch of time thinking about.

As a roleplayer in EVE, this is an issue that I've probably spent too much time thinking about.

Not-so-ninja-edit: The answer, in my opinion, is both yes and no. My short answer was this (gathered from my tweets): "Yes and no. Yes in that there should be more incentives for the community to destroy the mothership before the 'last minute.' No, in that it is a major pain in the ass to pick up and move all your shit when the mom pops, and it's a non-PVP activity that people enjoy doing in groups for hours on end several days a week."

Here's the short and sweet version of how Incursion farming works.

At any given moment, there can be up to seven Incursions in New Eden. The distribution of these incursions is always constant: up to three in high-security constellations, up to three in null-security constellations, and one in low-security constellations.

Incursions last roughly a week after they spawn, and have three "phases." First, there is the "Established" phase. This lasts roughly three to four days after the Incursion spawns in a constellation. After that, the Incursion switches to the "Mobilized" phase, which lasts roughly two days. The last phase is called the "Withdrawing" phase, and lasts exactly one day. When the Withdrawing phase is over, an Incursion disappears. At any point during any of these phases, if the Nation supercarrier is destroyed, the Incursion disappears. (This site only becomes visible after the Nation influence level drops below a certain point. I am not sure what this point is.)

Good, right?

Not quite.

Incursions pay out to players in two different ways at the same time: ISK and CONCORD LP. The ISK is paid out at the completion of a site, directly into the wallets of the pilots in the fleet that is deemed to have "won" the site. (If there are multiple fleets in a given site, the fleet that does the most damage total is the fleet that "wins.") LP, on the other hand, is placed into a pool that can be viewed in a player's Journal, under either the Global Report or Loyalty Point Log tabs in the Incursions section. This pool is kept in escrow by CONCORD until the Incursion is gone. If the Nation supercarrier ("Kundalini Manifest" or "Ouroborus") is destroyed, this LP is paid out to the players. If the Incursion successfully withdraws without the supercarrier being destroyed, CONCORD retains the LP and the players get nothing. They are allowed to keep the ISK.

This here is one root of the problem of Incursion farming: there is no incentive to destroy the supercarrier before the last minute, because time spent traveling between Incursions is time spent not making money. You will make the same amount of LP per site no matter what phase the Incursion is in, and there is no 'bonus' for clearing it early. In effect, farming Incursions to the last drop is encouraged by the game mechanics.

Why should I force myself and several hundred other players to waste time schlepping to another Incursion 20 jumps away when there's several more days I could spend farming the one I'm currently in?

There's the obvious "because griefing carebears is fucking hilarious" answer, sure. But what if you're someone who's using the Incursions to make money to pay for PLEX or ships? There just isn't a good, justifiable reason. There's absolutely no gameplay/mechanics-based reason to do so. (There are, however, roleplay/in-character reasons to do so, but I'll get into those in a bit.)

Okay, so what can we do about it? What incentives can CCP provide to make it worthwhile to the pilots in an Incursion to clear it early?

There's a bunch. But as I remarked to Mynnna and Evel, they all come with flaws.

Let's start with a couple that Evel suggested (which were similar to some of mine), and then another of mine. I'll let other people who participate in this come up with some others.

What if destroying the supercarrier early will give a chance of dropping a BPC for the Revenant, the player version of the Nation supercarrier? (Evel)

Pros: The Revenant BPC currently only can be dropped from the supercarrier in lowsec Incursions, and it doesn't always do this. This would help increase the availability of an incredibly rare ship that many collectors would love to get their hands on.

Cons: The problem with Incursion loot, is that there is none, except from the supercarrier. Many highsec Incursion communities currently scoop all of the loot, and then auction it off to the fleet to fund ship replacement programs. This won't work with a Revenant BPC. It's a blueprint for a ship worth tens of billions of ISK that actually has a very low demand. The sheer worth of the blueprint alone makes it near-impossible to expect anyone to be able to purchase it in an auction, let alone sell the thing easily. In the end, it's a solution that will most likely only benefit one person in what was a team effort. It also doesn't benefit any of the other people who spent hours of their time keeping the influence levels down in the constellation.

What if Incursions were modified so that if influence levels were kept below a certain point for some amount of time, it started withdrawing early? (Evel)

Pros: Given the nature of farming, this could work extremely well. Incursions would enter withdraw within a day or so of the Incursion communities arriving. They'd appear and disappear in a few days instead of lasting a whole week.

Cons: Incursions don't respawn immediately. After an Incursion disappears, regardless of whether it was due to player action or inaction, it takes between 24 and 36 hours to spawn a replacement. On top of that, one of the pros turns into a con - given the speed at which the influence level goes down, there suddenly wouldn't be any money to make because the Incursions would disappear too quickly. And there's nothing Incursion communities hate more than having to go do something else for a couple days because there aren't any Incursions up. Except maybe when there's only one highsec Incursion active, and it's located in a highsec island like Solitude. The end result would be Incursions become even more of a playground for elitist douchebaggery than they already are, and the reduced "uptime" would just make it harder for people to get involved.

What if the final payment from CONCORD were scaled by the length of the Incursion, where destroying the supercarrier earlier would result in an increased LP and/or ISK payout, but leaving it until the last minute would result in a penalty?

Pros: This could helps offset the lost payouts from the previous two options. If destroying the supercarrier early means that some of the otherwise lost payout is regained, people might go for it.

Cons: Predictably, this arrangement would end up being minmaxed to the point where the communities would find the "sweet spot" and just farm to that point, and we'd be back to square one. In effect, all it would do is reduce the length of the average Incursion - it wouldn't affect the "farming" or "ISK faucet" situations at all. On top of that, you'd effectively be getting free ISK/LP for sites you didn't complete - not something I'm particularly fond of. Then there's the issue of who gets the bonus payout (or penalty) - everyone who completed sites, or just the people in the winning fleet in the supercarrier site? I can guarantee that the latter would not go over well.

So, we haven't even looked at the storyline end of things yet.

How the fuck can CONCORD afford to keep paying us constantly for this? Surely it would make sense to pay us in a fashion that encouraged getting the job done efficiently, not bleeding the Assembly's wallet dry.

Well, yeah. No shit. So why not?

It wouldn't make for good gameplay. What's the point of this grand, end-game group PVE content if it doesn't last long enough for lots of people to get involved in it? (Time for a little detour.)

It sure as shit isn't storyline development. CCP dug themselves into a real deep hole with this one: Incursions are essentially a flagship/Jesus feature. The entire storyline (live events included) leading up to the expansion's release was centered around this one single feature! As a result, CCP can't progress the storyline in this respect without jeopardizing the existence of Incursions.

Well, sure, they could have the Sansha Incursions die off and be replaced with another pirate faction's NPCs. None of them really make quite as much sense, however - with the possible exception of the Equilibrium of Mankind (courtesy of the "Gone Berserk" missions), who were the original antagonists for the Incursion expansion before the focus was switched to Sansha's Nation. But that's a lot of work for the Art and Content teams to put in. And I mean a lot. There's currently 15 different Incursion sites, each unique. Assume another 15 or so for another faction. And don't forget the unique pirate faction supercapital. (And subcaps, in the EoM's case.)

Now imagine what would have to go into it if they decided to make the Incursion system available to all pirate factions, and instead of it just being Sansha that has the limelight, similar Incursions could appear in various places, instigated by the other pirate factions?

Multiply the amount of work for the previous thing, between 4 and 6 times. We already have Sansha's Nation. We'd be adding the following: Guristas, Serpentis, Blood Raiders, Angel Cartel, and possibly EoM and/or Rogue Drones.

That is a lot of work for the Art and Content teams.

I think the Sansha storyline's going to be stuck sitting with its thumb up its ass for a while yet, as far as Incursions go.

And now that I've derailed myself I need to wander back to the tracks. So!

The point of this grand, end-game group PVE content is to get people to play together. You cannot solo Incursion sites. (Except maybe the "Scout" level sites. Which pay less than L2/L3 missions. Possibly even less than L1s.) You need to be in a fleet to do Incursions effectively.

It's to expose people who don't normally do PVP, to PVP concepts, like fleet mechanics, logistics, comms discipline, etc. in a more consensual environment.

And to have fun.

And, of course, to get paid doing so.

... Which eventually turns into farming when people want to get as much gain for as little input as possible.